Criticising Israeli policy is not ‘anti semitism’.

Criticising/expressing dislike for Israeli politicians is not ‘anti semitism’.

Criticising Israel’s weather/restaurants/beaches/airline etc is not ‘anti semitism’.

Criticising various actions taken by Israel is not ‘anti semitism’.

But:

*Stating that Israel ‘has no right to exist’ IS anti semitism:

By doing this, you are singling out the Jewish state, in a manner that is unfair, irrational, and arrogant.

*Stating that ‘zionists’ are to blame for the problems in the Middle East IS anti semitism.

You are placing the blame for the centuries-old problems squarely upon those who live in and support the right to exist of the Jewish state.

Applying a tougher moral standard to Israel than to her Arab neighbours, or indeed any other nation IS anti semitism. You are demanding things of Israel that you do not demand of any other nation.

*MISrepresenting verifiable history about Israel IS anti semitism:

It means you are spreading lies about the Jewish state.

So for example:

If you state: ‘Jews don’t have any right to be in Palestine’ – then that IS anti semitism:

You are misrepresenting history, and ignoring the fact that Palestinian Jews have been living in the region for the past 3500 years, non stop.

You are also denying the existence OF the Jewish state, by referring to it as ‘Palestine’. Palestine was a region, and it was divided up by the British. Roughly 80% went to the Arabs. We know it as Jordan.

Over 50% of Israelis are natives OF the Middle East, going back countless generations.

It was the Arab rejection of the two state plan that caused the 1948 war between Israel and the six Arab nations that attacked her.

The very term ‘Palestinian’ originally referred TO Jews. The Palestinian Philharmonic Orchestra: totally Jewish.

The Palestinian Post newspaper: totally staffed by Jews – it went on to become today’s Jerusalem Post.

The Palestinian Brigade that fought WITH the allies AGAINST the Nazis: was 100% JEWISH.

Finally – to correct someone here. Jews ARE a nation. We were a nation before we had a physical state, but that doesn’t detract from the fact that Jews are and have always been a people and a nation.

Unhelpful. In this case the construction ‘I’m afraid’ was short for ‘I’m afraid to disappoint you’. I could very well have written: “The assertion ‘But in Britain today is has become so normal to be anti-Semitic’ is an outrageous sweeping statement and I’m sorry to disappoint you Laura but you will find little evidence for it.”

In Britain today, it is not normal to hate Jewish people. It is not normal to embark upon pogroms. It is not normal to ostracise Jewish people and call them “Jesus killers”. It is not normal to speak in hushed tones about Jewish practices in which the blood of innocents is used – and that for this Jewish people kidnap and kill Christian babies. This is anti-semitism. You want to see anti-semitism? Try Vienna in the late 19th century. Try Prague in the 16th century. But if you look around you in 21st century UK society you will find little evidence of the hatred and persecution of Jewish people.

“By any statistical, factual and anecdotal criteria, Britain is a highly and definitely increasingly antisemitic country.”

And we see this where? In the membership of associations being closed to those of Jewish descent? In the barring of political office from the same? In hate-filled propaganda broadcast across the airwaves warning God-fearing folk to be wary of the crafty Shylock and the thieving Fagin? I expect hearing of such developments would be a surprise to any number of my Jewish friends and associates. If it helps, I will go and ask them: “Do you feel that Britain is a ‘highly and definitely increasingly antisemitic country’?” and see what they come back with. Do you want me to?

“Your [...] deluded and ill-informed [...] view of Israel. You don’t understand the situation at all”

That much, at least, is entirely possible. Though my deluded and ill-informed view of Israel comes from, amongst other sources B’Tselem (http://www.btselem.org/English/) and you would perhaps concede that they do understand the situation.

“Tel Aviv is not the capital of Israel – Jerusalem is.”

That matter will be undecided as long as the territorial dispute continues. I want to ask you if your standpoint is consistent on this. Do you recognise Sukhumi as the capital of Abkhazia? Is Tiraspol the capital of Pridnestrovie? Is Lefkosa the capital of North Cyprus?

For now I refer to the Foreign and Commonwealth office which states: “Capital City: Israel maintains that Jerusalem is its capital city, a claim not recognised by the UK and the international community. The UK locates it embassy in Tel Aviv.” (See: http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/country-profile/middle-east-north-africa/israel/)

If Tel Aviv is not the internationally recognised capital then Israel has no internationally recognised capital at present. Yes, I understand that most Israelis recognise Jerusalem as their state capital. I’m sure most Pridnestrovians feel the same way about Tiraspol and most Abkhaz feel the same way about Sukhumi.

“Try to listen and empathise rather than just spout and preen.”

Yes, I would like very much to listen to perspectives other than my own. I hope very much that all others would like to do the same. That is why we are here. Not necessarily to change each others minds but certainly to listen and learn from each other and to accept that there are other perspectives out there which may not tally with our own.

The Other Matt- “Israel is a democratic, pluralist country and deserves Britain’s support through these difficult times.”

Well said and this is something I thoroughly agree with.

Jonathan – “I for one think Alan L is something of a preening bore.”

It may be so, Jonathan, but at least I don’t stoop to personal slurs in a public discussion about matters which are considerably more important.

“They know very little, but think they know a lot and consider it their duty to go on and on at everyone else about it.”

I go on very little about the Levant. I can assure you I am far more interested and involved in geopolitical questions in Central and Eastern Europe and in East Asia.

“inflated self opinion of people like Alan L”

I see a lot of critical adjectives being thrown around here. Can we focus on the discussion? Attempting to rubbish a participant’s views by slinging mud at them just makes the mud-slinger look like they have less to say. I respect your views even if I don’t agree with them and I want to discuss your views and test them against mine, so that I may better understand your views. I would hope that you would want to do the same (unless you’ve already made up your mind that your mind is made up?) and so there is no need to resort to name-calling.

“Could you please give an example of what you are talking about regarding Tel Aviv treating minorities badly?”

I didn’t mean the Tel Aviv municpal authorities treating minorities badly and I apologise for lack of clarity. As Amy correctly points out, when I referred to the Tel Aviv administration above, I probably should I have said the ‘Jerusalem administration’.

That notwithstanding, here is just one example of persecution of the Palestinian minority in Israel by the Israeli administration, in which checkpoints hinder the movements of Palestinian Israeli civilians in order to protect the Jewish Israeli inhabitants of illegal settlements. See: http://www.btselem.org/english/Freedom_of_Movement/Checkpoints_and_Forbidden_Roads.asp

“As for Oborne, one only needs to look at the comments section of the C4 page about his show to see the vile antisemitism it provoked in viewers who made a beeline there to abuse Jews whilst hiding behind the comfortable anonymity of the Internet.”

You know I looked at those comments just now and I didn’t see any examples of anti-semitism. Not one. It’s possible that there may have been some before which have subsequently been edited out. I hope, no matter how we feel about some of the Israeli administration’s policies at present, we can all agree that racist comments, no matter who the target people are unpleasant, insecure, ill-educated, irrational and moronic.

“And shame on you, Alan L.”

Why shame on me? It is not shameful to want peace.

Alan, hear this: I’m Jewish. I know I’ve experienced more antisemitism as I have got older, living here in the UK. I also read the news, see the attacks, and feel the pain. You clearly do not. However, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Furthermore, the MET Police and the CST have on record details of the number of attacks made on Jews, motivated by hate. And they show a rise too.

Could you please give an example of what you are talking about regarding Tel Aviv treating minorities badly? I was there twice over the summer, and saw quite the opposite: a wonderful city full of life, with many peoples living side by side and thriving. I saw Arabs, Jews, Christians, and more, all existing and enjoying their lives there; gay people, straight people, religious people, you name it. All in Tel Aviv. Have you even been there to make this assertion that there is persecution of minorities in that wonderful city? I doubt it.

As for Oborne, one only needs to look at the comments section of the C4 page about his show to see the vile antisemitism it provoked in viewers who made a beeline there to abuse Jews whilst hiding behind the comfortable anonymity of the Internet.

Shame on them. Shame on Oborne. Shame on C4. And shame on you, Alan L.

PS @Laura – I’m not Jewish either.

I ask because as a gay man who has experience of institutional, societal and individual homophobia in Britain, I still don’t think that’s an accurate statement, because most people aren’t anti-gay.

And I think it’s a decent analogy for the statement you did defend, as a Jew.